{"id":4815,"date":"2025-09-25T15:40:44","date_gmt":"2025-09-25T15:40:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/2025\/09\/25\/bitcoin-gives-me-hope-says-knut-svanholm-in-bitcoin-magazine-exclusive-interview\/"},"modified":"2025-09-25T15:40:44","modified_gmt":"2025-09-25T15:40:44","slug":"bitcoin-gives-me-hope-says-knut-svanholm-in-bitcoin-magazine-exclusive-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/2025\/09\/25\/bitcoin-gives-me-hope-says-knut-svanholm-in-bitcoin-magazine-exclusive-interview\/","title":{"rendered":"Bitcoin Gives Me Hope, Says Knut Svanholm in Bitcoin Magazine Exclusive Interview"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/\">Bitcoin Magazine<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/bitcoin-hope-says-knut-svanholm-exclusive-interview\">Bitcoin Gives Me Hope, Says Knut Svanholm in Bitcoin Magazine Exclusive Interview<\/a><\/p>\n<div><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/authors\/knut-svanholm\"><em>Knut Svanholm<\/em><\/a><em>, the Swedish author, Bitcoiner, podcaster and educator, is a prolific writer and eccentric, charismatic persona in Bitcoinland. We don\u2019t have royals in Bitcoin and we routinely slay our heroes, which means that anybody who sticks around for a long time has Lindy-proven integrity. Svanholm is one such character: If you\u2019ve attended the conference circuit in recent years, you\u2019re likely to have encountered Svanholm\u2019s enchanting voice and scruffy beard \u2014 cowboy hat included for fashion and good measure.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>I\u2019ve always had a weak spot for this fellow Scandinavian, whether it be his uncompromising words or impressive output, his funky demeanor or funny personality. In a recent interview with Bitcoin Magazine, we chatted about publishing books in the modern age, writing, <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Praxeology-Invisible-Hand-that-Feeds\/dp\/991692175X\" target=\"_blank\"><em>praxeology<\/em><\/a><em> \u2014 the arcane <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/bigread\/money-robinson-crusoe-praxeology\"><em>science<\/em><\/a><em> underpinning <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/glossary\/austrian-economics\"><em>Austrian economics<\/em><\/a><em> \u2014 spirituality, nation-states, the cooperative nature of Bitcoin, how Bitcoin wins and why leaning into \u201cthe fun\u201d makes for a better path to the brilliant, bright, orange future we both see.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Together with his sidekick and co-author Luke de Wolf, Svanholm has incorporated the publishing house Lemiscate Media in Estonia, which allowed them to accept sats and keep bitcoin on the balance sheet \u2014 a <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/tags\/bitcoin-treasury-company\">bitcoin treasury company<\/a>, the old-fashioned way. It also offered a convenient way around Amazon\u2019s book publishing <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/store.bitcoinmagazine.com\/products\/bitcoin-magazine-issue-29?srsltid=AfmBOopxByxzD_zcWTLjC6UiFYhxU2et-if_nSG_3t1pYAuPBBGBaDs-\"><em>gatekeeping<\/em><\/a><em> and meant that all books became print-on-demand. (All of Knut Svanholm\u2019s previous book \u2014 including \u201c<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoininfinitystore.com\/product\/everything-divided-hardcover\/\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Everything Divided by 21 Million<\/em><\/a><em>\u201d and \u201c<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/print\/books-books-knut-svanholm-luke-de-wolf-and-bitcoin-the-inverse-of-clown-world\"><em>The Inverse of Clown World<\/em><\/a><em>\u201d \u2014 are available via Lemiscate.)<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: Knut, tell me about your publishing company. Are you trying to copy <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/news\/saifedean-ammous-nothing-stops-this-train-tether-bitcoin-and-the-endgame-for-the-dollar\">Saifedean Ammous<\/a> and make Lemiscate Media be like his <a href=\"https:\/\/thesaifhouse.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">The Saif House<\/a>?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Yeah, I\u2019ve always been a little bit Saifedean-like, or rather: Saif with a pirate hat. But it\u2019s not because I\u2019m copying Saif on purpose, but rather that things have just played out this way\u2026 There\u2019s a reason why that happens. The same thing happened with my book \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Praxeology-Invisible-Hand-that-Feeds\/dp\/991692175X\" target=\"_blank\">Praxeology: The Invisible Hand That Feeds You<\/a>\u201d \u2014 I re-wrote it this year and turned it into a full course for <a href=\"https:\/\/planb.network\/en\/professor\/knut-svanholm-896106ba-dcbf-406f-8d8a-b2e6581a2381\" target=\"_blank\">Plan \u20bf<\/a> that\u2019ll be released this winter. It was all a very Saifedean-like approach, echoing what he did with his \u201cPrinciples of Economics\u201d textbook. Mine is much less dense: The chapters are shorter and a bit more accessible than in Saif\u2019s book.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>One question I had for us sitting down was about your book \u201cPraxeology,\u201d your attempt to connect <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/bitcoin-austrian-economics-1409113330\">Bitcoiners with Austrian economists<\/a>. When it came out, I saw almost nobody writing about it (<a href=\"https:\/\/mises.org\/mises-wire\/private-property-comes-scarcity-not-law\" target=\"_blank\">I did!<\/a>) \u2014 what happened? \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Bitcoin-Everything-divided-21-million\/dp\/9916697191\" target=\"_blank\">Everything Divided by 21 Million<\/a>,\u201d massive success; \u201cPraxeology,\u201d almost nothing. What gives?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>Generally speaking, I think people read less and it\u2019s hard to follow up on a hit. Plus, there are a little too many Bitcoin books right now as well; people don\u2019t know what to choose.\u00a0The more long-term goal here is to assemble <em>all<\/em> of the books into one, a \u201ccollected volumes\u201d type of thing, leatherbound etc. The podcast I run with Luke de Wolf, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.bitcoininfinityshow.com\/\" target=\"_blank\">Bitcoin Infinity Show<\/a>, is more for hardened Bitcoiners \u2014 conviction-deepening rather than <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/no-one-person-orange-pilled-you\">orange-pilling<\/a>\u2026\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: \u2026then why are you clowning about so much on the show?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Haha\u2026 it doesn\u2019t matter what you do, the absolute most important thing is that what you deliver is entertaining in some way. That can be because it\u2019s interesting or because it\u2019s passionate \u2014 or because it\u2019s fun! And fun can be a shortcut to entertaining: If it\u2019s fun, people stick around. If you keep your humor about, that becomes a tool for making people listen. We think about this when it comes to <a href=\"https:\/\/x.com\/btchelevent\/status\/1952421273058845183\">Satoshi Rockamoto<\/a> [the pop-up <a href=\"https:\/\/btchel.com\/side-events\/\" target=\"_blank\">concert events<\/a> that Svanholm runs together with Mike Jarmuz, Samson Mow, Martti Malmi etc., eds. remark]. It started way back, at an event in Mexico and we all just borrowed some instruments and were all surprised at how good it sounded\u2026 Wouldn\u2019t it be a good idea to do this at different conferences?!<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: Yeah, those shows are amazing, and you can really tell that you guys are having fun. Is it all planned and rehearsed, or do you guys just wing it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: No, it\u2019s completely improvised. This time in <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/industry-events\/bitcoin-conference-btchelsinki\">Helsinki at BTCHel<\/a> was the first time we rehearsed together \u2014 <em>once<\/em>. I often gotta pinch myself\u2026 <em>Am I really in a band with Martii Malmi and Samson Mow?! <\/em>What everyone who is anyone in Bitcoin have in common is that they\u2019re just themselves, and that just works.\u00a0<\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<p>Good times at <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/btchel?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">#btchel<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hashtag\/rockamoto?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">#rockamoto<\/a> with <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/knutsvanholm?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@knutsvanholm<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/lukedewolf?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@lukedewolf<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/JoeNakamoto?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@JoeNakamoto<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/giacomozucco?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@giacomozucco<\/a> and many others. Thanks to all the event organizers, and to <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/SwissHodler?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@SwissHodler<\/a>  and <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/Jake21m?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@Jake21m<\/a> for videography! <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/T46CJCeLkb\">pic.twitter.com\/T46CJCeLkb<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Martti Malmi (@marttimalmi) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/marttimalmi\/status\/1957186790604919082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">August 17, 2025<\/a>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: I\u2019m trying to live by my words, practice what I preach\u2026 and I\u2019ve long had this idea that we <em>are <\/em>our satoshis.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: I remember the first time I heard you say that, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=r_UMiLB1MAo\" target=\"_blank\">on stage in Prague 2023<\/a> \u2014 and you just looked completely out of your mind!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: The entire distinction between satoshis and personhood is pretty blurry: All there is to Bitcoin is keeping a secret from someone else\u2026 All nodes, all miners, etc., have a person behind them. They\u2019re not \u201cbacked by energy,\u201d but by human action (\u2026which, technically, is also backed by energy). At the end of the day, I always say that <em>Bitcoin is an agreement on a fixed set of rules<\/em>, and the reason we agree on <em>this<\/em> specific set of rules is that they are costlier to try to break than to just follow. And that\u2019s what allows for resistance, irreplicability and finiteness.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: There\u2019s a quote in economics and game theory to the effect of \u201ctrading is cheaper than raiding,\u201d but still world history is littered with wars. What do you make of that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut:<\/strong> Yes, but if the aggressor thinks that he has enough to profit from violence, there\u2019s a risk he will. Where Bitcoin is different is that I can threaten you with a gun \u2014 <em>Joakim, give me all of your sats!<\/em> \u2014 but there is no way for me to know how many sats you have. So game-theoretically, it\u2019s better for me to offer you something of value and trade with you\u2026 Bitcoin has moved the point at which aggression pays further out, and this aspect of Bitcoin is so underappreciated.<\/p>\n<p>But let\u2019s return to this idea that we are all our satoshis. Everybody wants to pump their bags, and we all benefit from <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/bitcoin-is-a-trojan-horse-for-freedom\">number-go-up<\/a>, which means all companies and everybody in Bitcoin have an incentive to help each other.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>With Lemiscate and Bitcoin Infinity Show we\u2019re really trying to put that in practice right now, by giving as much as we can because, in the end, it all comes back to us! Why not cooperate? Take <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/business\/vexl-the-next-generation-bitcoin-p2p-trading-app\">Vexl<\/a>, the <a href=\"https:\/\/vexl.it\/\" target=\"_blank\">peer-to-peer trading platform<\/a> out of Prague; they\u2019re not paying us a dime to say this, but I still want everyone to be on Vexl \u2014 it\u2019s an excellent service.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Bitcoin jobs in general is so completely different than fiat jobs; you don\u2019t even need to, or can expect, to be paid anything to begin with. Rather, you must provide value first and then reap rewards later. That\u2019s <em>so<\/em> powerful, and most people don\u2019t get that: All I want is for <em>you<\/em> to flourish.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> The connection to Praxeology is <em>so<\/em> obvious: We\u2019ve sort of fiat-ized what \u201cwork\u201d is. A job is: you\u2019re employed by someone, you do something and you\u2019re paid by the hour\u2026 And there are laws around this, it\u2019s your right as a laborer to receive this money. And nobody thinks about how working is about <em>creating value for someone else<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: And that doesn\u2019t stop being true just because someone \u2014 the state, labor unions \u2014 is trying hard to make that <em>not <\/em>true. Still, an employer won\u2019t hire anybody if it\u2019s too costly. Say you want to hire somebody in Sweden. Then you have to consider that you can\u2019t fire them very easily, you gotta pay payroll taxes, and income taxes etc., if they\u2019re ill, you have to pay for their recovery, and blah-blah-blah.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>It leads to this entitlement idea, a culture or <em>I deserve all this<\/em>. Most people don\u2019t understand how Bitcoin is different here: What happens when there is a way to signal value that\u2019s deflationary, absolutely finite, such that all prices \u2014 including salaries \u2014 fall over time, while purchasing power <em>rises<\/em>.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If you hire someone, and that someone gets the same amount of satoshis every month, their real salary is effectively increasing\u2026 You never need to readjust salaries. Micropayments is such a fiat idea\u2026 The entire model of velocity of money is a Keynesian idea.. I think subscription models will increase in popularity. On a deflationary standard, a company has every incentive to receive one larger payment early over many smaller payments later, because it <em>will<\/em> receive fewer and fewer satoshis every time.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> Uh, ok\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: I think people just underestimate what deflation is. That\u2019s the main thesis in \u201cThe Inverse of Clown World\u201d: Everything that\u2019s true in fiat, the <em>inverse<\/em> of that is true in Bitcoin.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>On a bitcoin standard, we\u2019ll have fewer transactions \u2014 not more. It\u2019s a pet theory I have, and it was in a Bitcoin Magazine article (\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/real-scaling-solution-for-bitcoin\">The Real Scaling Solution for Bitcoin<\/a>\u201d) a few years ago: With a richer society, you\u2019ll have fewer transactions. Say ten rich people and ten poor people are having dinner. Among the rich people, at the end of the night, someone picks up the tab, so over time there\u2019ll be ten transactions \u2014 one per dinner. But for the poor people, who don\u2019t have enough wealth, everyone has to pay for their own meal on every occasion, meaning a hundred transactions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If we focus on <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/quality-or-equality\">quality<\/a> instead of quantity, which is what happens in a deflationary economy, what happens is fewer transactions but more significant, valuable transactions.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u201cWill give everyone a reason to save rather than overconsume, giving more people access to whatever they want over time because of the falling prices. If you postpone your spending, your bitcoin will buy you more in the future. In other words, fewer transactions. Quality before quantity. The necessity for transactions per second will diminish.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>This article really didn\u2019t pull any punches. In a hundred years, you won\u2019t pay for coffee anymore; the barista will give it to you for free, since he has built up this entire chain of trust over generations, which will ensure that you want to give him something of value.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: Like that quote you referred to on stage here at <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/tags\/btchel\">BTCHel<\/a>, know-your-customer laws are economically illiterate; trust is the <em>opposite<\/em> of money. <a href=\"https:\/\/authory.com\/JoakimBook\/Do-You-have-Silver-ab0be998dd5554baabd6207aec1a9337f\" target=\"_blank\">Trading partners only need to use money when they <em>don\u2019t<\/em> trust someone<\/a>. The difference is, you use credit money with those you trust, and commodity money with strangers.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Precisely! You only need money in trade when you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> trust the people you\u2019re trading with. That\u2019s the problem with credit money altogether: It <em>isn\u2019t<\/em> money. Even if you have debt notes or credit money, it has to be denominated <em>in something<\/em> \u2014 and that something is what constitutes money.\u00a0<\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<p>My man Dr. <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/IoniAppelberg?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@IoniAppelberg<\/a> killing it at <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/btchelevent?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">@btchelevent<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/xX7tOUyQNF\">pic.twitter.com\/xX7tOUyQNF<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u2014 Knut Svanholm \u221e\/21M (@knutsvanholm) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/knutsvanholm\/status\/1956627561900818822?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\" target=\"_blank\">August 16, 2025<\/a>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p>I learned this in Murray Rothbard\u2019s excellent book \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/mises.org\/library\/book\/what-has-government-done-our-money\" target=\"_blank\">What Has Government Done to Our Money?<\/a>\u201d There\u2019s no doubt about it: Credit money is not money. Money represents something valuable; even if that\u2019s a debt, it has to be denominated <em>in something<\/em> \u2014 and it\u2019s <em>that thing<\/em> that is money. When you accept a receipt for something and you don\u2019t receive the thing back, that\u2019s theft.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s what banknotes are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> You write something to that effect in the beginning of your 2020 book \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Bitcoin-Independence-reimagined-Knut-Svanholm\/dp\/B087638GJT\" target=\"_blank\">Independence Reimagined<\/a>\u201d, about how collective imagination is one of our greatest strengths as humans \u2014 but also our worst weakness. Natural law, property rights, money etc, aren\u2019t out there, <em>in nature<\/em>, right; we don\u2019t discover them, but invent them, no\u2026?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: No, all the way down to molecular biology or complex societies like ant hills, I think, where we find examples of what <em>looks like <\/em>cooperation and herd behavior, but in reality, you\u2019re backstabbing them \u2014 the black sheep of the herd, etc. What\u2019s evolutionarily good for the herd isn\u2019t always the same as what\u2019s good for the herd.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB<\/strong>: This is something monetary scholars often talk about, what is it that money <em>does<\/em> in a society? Large-scale cooperation, overcoming Dunbar\u2019s number etc. It\u2019s these collective delusions that let a billion Catholics cooperate, or 330 million Americans to all believe in their shared stories \u2014 not that America is doing extraordinarily well, but that\u2019s beside the point \u2014 the belief that we are one unit is what lets us cooperate so we\u2019ll create bigger things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Organized religion and, after that, nation-states, might be good for your tribe, for convincing people that they go to heaven if you murder members of this other tribe. And to do that, we have to cooperate, so we need to tax citizens this or that much and then demand that you give your life for the herd. That\u2019s rarely good for the individual soldier. And some of these units have created pretty destructive things, too.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>For some of these topics \u2014 like the question of God \u2014 I\u2019m perfectly comfortable <em>not<\/em> knowing certain things, <em>if<\/em> I know these are questions we can\u2019t answer. If you were to order the great Austrians in order of religiosity, I think we\u2019d get Mises -&gt; Rothbard -&gt; Hoppe.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019ve changed my mind about is that I nowadays believe democracy to be the most dangerous religion. <strong>It\u2019s better that people believe in a fake friend in the sky than an earthly friend who swindles them. <\/strong>Religion is a tool for managed control, the best way to fool 18-year-olds into war \u2014 and psychopaths will use it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>What\u2019s the connection to economics or praxeology?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>Well, <a href=\"https:\/\/mises.org\/library\/book\/austrian-perspective-history-economic-thought\" target=\"_blank\">economic thought<\/a> was actually better <em>before<\/em> the Enlightenment than after. At that time, all economists were also theologians grappling with the basic question, What does God want? Many of them are opposed to the phenomenon of interest, unethical practices and turning people into debt slaves<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> \u2026 like Jeff Booth said in his lecture at <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/tags\/btchel\">BTCHel<\/a> \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20250819115315\/https:\/\/btchel.com\/schedule\/\" target=\"_blank\">No They. Only We<\/a>\u201d\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>Precisely, and it\u2019s not until we get <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/glossary\/austrian-economics\">Austrian economics<\/a> that we actually can explain how interest <em>is <\/em>ethical \u2014\u00a0 That it\u2019s just the <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/markets\/measured-in-bitcoin-everything-will-fall-in-price\">price of tomorrow<\/a>, to quote Booth.\u00a0<\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"youtube-embed\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>And prices <em>and <\/em>interest rates fall in a free market.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>Everything we talk about here is so <em>in the weeds<\/em>, so deep, so spiritual. Praxeology itself is a bit like that, making us wonder what in the world <em>is <\/em>this thing we call consciousness, choice, economics?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>The basic tenet is that <em>science cannot derive an ought from an is <\/em>\u2014 but with praxeology, we can get pretty darn close! Hans-Hermann Hoppe explains it best, but if I were to try, I\u2019d say, \u201cAll communications and interaction between humans are the result of some sort of conflict.\u201d We perceive value in communicating rather than attacking, which means <em>all language<\/em> is for resolving conflict; we have human language so that we can comprehend one another.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>From there, you\u2019re very close to absolute property rights. And here\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/mises.org\/libertarian-papers\/argumentation-ethics-and-philosophy-freedom\" target=\"_blank\">argumentation ethics<\/a>:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If I say every human owns their own bodies, <em>you cannot rebuke that without proving my point<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>And from there, we can derive <em>so much knowledge from that<\/em>, if you only accept those axioms. But they are still pretty darn sound axioms.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>So why isn\u2019t this sexy? Why doesn\u2019t it sell? I think this is, big-brain gigachad <em>boom<\/em> stuff\u2026 but nobody cares.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>\u2026and it\u2019s so goddamn simple that it\u2019s better to cooperate than to use violence. People don\u2019t understand how much they\u2019re being robbed today; everybody underestimates their own value. It\u2019s tragic, but not that hard to explain: You have an institution \u2014 public school \u2014 entirely funded by theft. You learn math and English and whatever, but you also learn social science, which is nothing but opinions and bullshit. We\u2019re taught obedience rather than providing value.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Everything that at some level is supported by government money is corrupt and unethical. These ideas have existed for centuries, but it\u2019s so hard for normies to get past this:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If there\u2019s <em>one<\/em> thing public education shoves down our throats more than anything else, it\u2019s that democracy is the most important and most beautiful thing we have. It\u2019s not. It\u2019s a system that says, <em>because<\/em> of a popularity contest, you have the right to take others\u2019 stuff; it\u2019s completely wrong, beginning to end.\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>How do you see this fixed? How do we win?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>The more we use bitcoin, KYC-free, between each other without paying taxes, and without inflation, the more we disarm the psychopaths.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> Very, very slowly, one person at a time?\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>Yes: Sooner or later, everyone wakes up to this. Anyone who attends these Bitcoin conferences can see for themselves how freakin\u2019 superior bitcoin is to fiat money.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>We went on a <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinwalk.org\/helsinki\/\" target=\"_blank\">Bitcoin Walk in Helsinki<\/a> yesterday. We stopped at a caf\u00e9 \u2014 cute, small, two people working there, and 50 Bitcoiners show up. <em>Obviously<\/em>, everyone was gonna try to orange-pill this poor barista: wallets, zapping, the whole ordeal. Just think about it for a minute, 50 people, 5,000-10,000 sats zapped each, that\u2019s a good couple of hundred bucks. Easy money, right? No, the dude had <em>zero<\/em> interest; he just wanted to serve coffee and get on with his day.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Well, at dinner last night, we met a server who was exactly the other way around. She was super interested, \u201cOh yes, I\u2019ve heard about bitcoin but I\u2019ve never tried it, don\u2019t know how it works.\u201d From just a handful of us, she got some $50 \u2014 super happy about it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>So the guy we met yesterday just didn\u2019t have curiosity awakened yet, whereas your server from last night <em>did<\/em>\u2026? You think that\u2019s the difference?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut:<\/strong> Yes! The biggest reason for this is that to even grasp what Bitcoin is or what it does, you need to spend 100 hours on self-education\u2026 and most people aren\u2019t willing to do that! The biggest hurdle to adoption is that people don\u2019t have time; they don\u2019t have 10,000 hours or whatever to invest into Bitcoin in order to <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/nobody-understands-the-monetary-system\">fully understand<\/a> it.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB:<\/strong> But we <em>do<\/em> have that time \u2014 certainly in a country like Finland. At least in the West, we work <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/nobody-understands-the-monetary-system\">fewer hours<\/a>, we have higher real wages, more leisure time. You <em>can<\/em> devote your time to whatever<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut<\/strong>: Sure, but most people want to go to work, then go home and feel like they made a living for themselves when actually they worked three out of five days for the government, and another for the banks.<\/p>\n<p>That we <em>still<\/em> have money and time left is a testament to how strong the free market is: Everything good in the world comes from the free market. It\u2019s a more powerful force than any totalitarian, self-pompos leader ever could be.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><em>Despite <\/em>democracy, taxes and inflation, things move forward. We have progress.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>JB: <\/strong>Alright, wrapping up. What gives you hope? Where do you see the light? <em>I <\/em>don\u2019t think the future is dark \u2014 it\u2019s bright af \u2014 but the more you look out into fiatland, the worse things look.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Knut: <\/strong>That\u2019s because the future <em>isn\u2019t<\/em> in fiat \u2014 it\u2019s in Bitcoin. The future is bitcoin. It\u2019s definitely this \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/slave-coin-or-freedom-coin-bitcoin\">Which Way, Western Man<\/a>\u201d meme. Either we\u2019re in a world where everyone cooperates \u2014 like Booth says, eight billion people in service of eight billion people \u2014 or we\u2019re going further down totalitarian oppression, darker and darker.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>If we didn\u2019t have Bitcoin, I\u2019d be much less hopeful for the future.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Bitcoin exists, it\u2019s easy to learn, and when a system is better, people make the change \u2014 put like that, why <em>wouldn\u2019t<\/em> Bitcoin win?\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The world with Bitcoin is beautiful.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This post <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/culture\/bitcoin-hope-says-knut-svanholm-exclusive-interview\">Bitcoin Gives Me Hope, Says Knut Svanholm in Bitcoin Magazine Exclusive Interview<\/a> first appeared on <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/\">Bitcoin Magazine<\/a> and is written by <a href=\"https:\/\/bitcoinmagazine.com\/authors\/joakim-book\">Joakim Book<\/a>.<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bitcoin Magazine Bitcoin Gives Me Hope, Says Knut Svanholm in Bitcoin Magazine Exclusive Interview Knut Svanholm, the Swedish author, Bitcoiner, podcaster and educator, is a prolific writer and eccentric, charismatic persona in Bitcoinland. We don\u2019t have royals in Bitcoin and we routinely slay our heroes, which means that anybody who sticks around for a long [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":0,"featured_media":4816,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"tdm_status":"","tdm_grid_status":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-4815","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-bitcoin"},"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4815","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4815"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4815\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4816"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4815"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4815"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/digkrypton.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4815"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}